Alright, time for a game

"gmctavish needs more space" (gmctavish) 01/23/2018 at 00:55 • Filed to: Money

1

46

I just renewed my insurance for the year, how much do you think I have to pay?

2006 Subaru Legacy wagon, collision and comprehensive, 2mil liability, through ICBC, which is the only choice in BC. 35% discount because no accidents.

Winner gets a random car picture from my phone.

promoted by the color red > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 01:03

4

It’s a Subaru Legacy wagon so $3.50, but since this is BC it’s more like $3.50*1000 =>$3500

LOREM IPSUM > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 01:04

0

Too damn much. That’s how much.

LOREM IPSUM > promoted by the color red 01/23/2018 at 01:05

0

Probably an accurate assessment.

gmctavish needs more space > LOREM IPSUM 01/23/2018 at 01:22

1

No kidding. I got my 5% more discount for not having any accidents again, but since the rates were raised, I’m paying the same as last year

Svart Smart, traded in his Smart > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 01:25

0

US$1600, or C$1991.

gmctavish needs more space > Svart Smart, traded in his Smart 01/23/2018 at 01:27

0

That would be lovely

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 01:41

0

I’m going to say it’s more than I, an 18-year-old male am paying for a 2004 Infinti G35 in Ontario, so more than $2360 per year.

gmctavish needs more space > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 01/23/2018 at 01:44

0

It’s close, but it is indeed more

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 01:48

0

And you have a 35% safe driver discount, so that’s...over $3186 base rate? On a 12-year-old naturally-aspirated Subaru station wagon? And state-run non-essential services are supposed to help the people how?

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 02:10

0

Since it’s Canada, and that (I think) you are somewhere in your mid 20s, something around C$3268?

pip bip - choose Corrour > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 02:53

0

$1100

gmctavish needs more space > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 01/23/2018 at 03:19

1

Yup.....your guess is as good as mine. It doesn’t help that metro van’s accident rates are insane.

gmctavish needs more space > pip bip - choose Corrour 01/23/2018 at 03:19

0

Man that would nice. More than twice that.

gmctavish needs more space > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 01/23/2018 at 03:21

1

It’s close to that before my discount I believe.

pip bip - choose Corrour > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 03:28

0

$2650 then

gmctavish needs more space > pip bip - choose Corrour 01/23/2018 at 03:37

0

You and G_body_man are the closest

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 07:21

0

Dang. Are rates in Canada just that high or does it have something to do with your age/location? I pay US$1200/year for both of my Subaru’s combined.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 08:24

0

I’m so glad insurance rates aren’t bad here...that’s crazy. That’s just for one car? I pay less than half that for the 4 cars my wife and I have.

extraspecialbitter > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 08:59

0

Damn, that’s how much I pay for all 3 of my vehicles. What sorcery is afoot?

red014 > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 09:08

0

Wow, I bought a 2007 Legacy sedan brand new back in ‘06 when I was in my mid 20s and paid less than $600 a year for full coverage. Is this a Canada thing, or do you have a checkered driving history?

fintail > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 10:05

1

Wow, you pay an insane amount. I pay just over half that with full coverage on a 2 year old MB and the fintail, combined. I am a few years older, but that doesn’t account for it all.

I wonder if it is the shameful skill set of lower mainland drivers, the ICBC monopoly, or a combination of both. I have to believe the latter, as Seattle area drivers aren’t really any better.

LOREM IPSUM > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 01/23/2018 at 10:13

2

B.C stands for “Bring Cash”

gmctavish needs more space > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 01/23/2018 at 10:44

2

BC is especially high, Metro Vancouver has very high accident rates, and if you’ve been driving under 10 years, you pay a good chunk more. Still, it’s pretty ridiculous how much it is.

gmctavish needs more space > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/23/2018 at 10:45

0

Yup. After my discount it’s $2514, but yeah it’s pretty crazy.

gmctavish needs more space > red014 01/23/2018 at 10:47

0

It’s a BC thing, also a metro Vancouver thing. I have zero at-fault accidents, hence the 35% discount, so I’m paying the least for this coverage on this car that someone my age can pay.

gmctavish needs more space > fintail 01/23/2018 at 10:49

0

I think it’s a combination of both, but whatever it really is, it’s insane. $2514 after my discount, for one car is ridiculous.

fintail > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 11:25

0

Did things change when ICBC changed from being a supposed nonprofit? Or are they spending a fortune on their “Safety” campaigns?

vicali > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 11:30

1

2008 Forester just up the road in Kamloops; $1200 with same discounts..

Lower mainland drivers eh?

gmctavish needs more space > vicali 01/23/2018 at 11:45

0

Wow. Alright that’s some more incentive to move. Someone from Victoria commented on my post on the oppo facebook and they’re also only paying $1200.

gmctavish needs more space > fintail 01/23/2018 at 11:48

0

Well it’s looking like a big factor is being in the lower mainland. Vicali is paying less than half in Kamloops, and someone on the oppo facebook page is paying the same in Victoria.

I don’t imagine it helped that the BC Liberals were funnelling cash out, although ICBC still claims that the rates are simply because there are so many accidents. It’s probably a lot of pretty questionable things just really adding up.

fintail > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 12:05

1

I wonder if there’s a big fat pension fund somewhere that needs attention, or some bonus payouts. It’d be interesting to see an independent audit of rates, and a trail of the destination of your premiums.

gmctavish needs more space > fintail 01/23/2018 at 12:07

0

That would be very interesting to see

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 14:31

0

I paid over $3K for my CX-3. I wanted replacement cost as it was newer but couldn’t afford it. Got limited dep. instead.

Hooray ICBC. You and I have the same discount

gmctavish needs more space > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/23/2018 at 14:33

0

Holy shit. It really is insane. The island just sounds better and better...

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 14:36

0

I wish I could do the island. But work is hard to find over there for me, so I can’t, but at the same time, I feel like Vancouver (even living in Langey) is bleeding me dry with the cost of commuting and living.

I have thought many times about Halifax though. I went there to look at homes/do lunch with some industry people and... it is tempting.

gmctavish needs more space > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/23/2018 at 14:39

0

Yeah fair enough. I’d need to switch industries altogether to move anywhere else, but it’s just so expensive here, so I think that’ll be the plan eventually.

His Stigness > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 18:14

0

Jesus I only pay $1800 to insure my W202 and MKVI with two drivers, $300,000 limits, $250 collision and $50 comprehensive. Dayum.

gmctavish needs more space > His Stigness 01/23/2018 at 20:20

0

I guess part of that is the high liability we have to insure for here, but mostly it’s just how insane our rates are

His Stigness > gmctavish needs more space 01/23/2018 at 22:39

0

Are you in a no-fault province or country?

gmctavish needs more space > His Stigness 01/24/2018 at 00:23

0

I don’t believe so, I think BC is one of the few provinces that isn’t no-fault

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 01/24/2018 at 01:14

0

So I’m going to add to this that I take issue with the state-run non-essential services not helping thing.

In Manitoba we’ve got state-run insurance. Er, I had. I’m in Alberta now. But my full coverage on my MJ and pretty thorough coverage on the Niva only cost me $105/month... combined. Registration and insurance combined, for two vehicles. Here in the supposed land of the free, where the free market supposedly makes everything better, a year of minimum legal liability on the MJ has me at $1300, plus another ~$80 for the registration. That’s “we’ll fix the other guy’s car but you’re fucked” in Alberta for more than double what I was paying in Manitoba for $200 deductible for at-fault and glass, $0 deductible on wildlife, not-at-faults, vandalism, and hit and run, and $2,000,000 liability. Add in the $300 deductible for everything (and still $2,000,000 liability, it was only like an extra $50/year to go to that from $250,000 liability so I figured what the hey, I drive to the US sometimes) on the Niva and you still come up at lower premiums than the “you’re legal but go fuck yourself” I get in Alberta.

Risk aggregation is a thing, and it’s surprising how much money you save when the insurance company isn’t there to make a profit. And when everyone in the province gets their insurance at the same place, their insurance premiums effectively are only what they need to cover themselves. I don’t know what the hell BC’s problem is, but it’s not the public aspect of it.

Government-mandated services shouldn’t be privately administered. Forcing you to use a private service with almost no controls over it means the service providers can and will collude and form a cartel.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 01/24/2018 at 01:19

1

Definitely location. I had two vehicles insured in Manitoba for about $1250/year. In general it’s more expensive in Canada than in the US, but it varies pretty wildly per province depending on how the insurance is operated. In Manitoba it’s all run by a crown corporation, and things go much more smoothly (and cheaply) when there’s only one insurance company where they’re not in it for a profit.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 01/24/2018 at 12:33

0

Your argument sounds great in theory, but there are a few reasons why it doesn’t quite check out. Alberta has a higher per capita crash fatality rate than Manitoba, as well as the highest motor vehicle theft rate in all of Canada. Factors like these drive up insurance costs for everyone, which is why it’s hard to compare provinces. BC is noticeably more similar to Alberta in terms of risk, and insurance in Alberta is noticeably cheaper than in BC.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 01/24/2018 at 20:22

0

Your argument also doesn’t quite check out.

Manitoba’s fatality rate per capita is only 75% of Alberta’s, yes, but that’s not the whole story. MB has 215% of AB’s per-capita crash injury rate. Going per vehicle-miles, fatalities are identical but MB has 280% of AB’s rate. Per licensed driver MB is only at 85% fatality but still 235% the injury rate. Looking at Saskatchewan, fatalities and injuries are both higher than Alberta’s by around 50%, and yet under SK’s crown-corporation insurance, premiums aren’t all that much higher than Manitoba’s. Ontario has significantly lower collision casualty rates than MB and the insurance rates are still through the rough in ON’s privatized system.

In terms of vehicle theft rates, well to be frank I have zero theft coverage under my policy so this is irrelevant to my personal risk level, but Manitoba’s theft rate is decreased through rather artificial means. Ten or so years ago MPI started requiring immobilizers to be installed on the most-stolen vehicle models based on their data because theft rates were ridiculously high, and when I say ridiculous, I mean 1/6th of all Jeep Cherokees registered in the province had been stolen at least once, and the rest of the top ten were all at least 1/10. Manitoba’s insurance rates haven’t really gone down since then, despite a huge reduction in theft rates. Largely I think due to the fact that around the same time MPI implemented a policy supposedly in the name of environmental responsibility where they would be far more likely to write off older vehicles for seemingly inconsequential damage... a friend’s XJ was written off a couple years ago for damage that could’ve been fixed for under $1500, (I could’ve fixed it for about $300 in junkyard parts, it was really just the bumper and a fender) but they paid out $3800, when she had only paid $3000 for it, four years and 150,000 km prior. They also will automatically mark write-offs older than 1995 as irreparable regardless of the damage, meaning they have almost no salvage value to recover at auction. But that’s straying from my point I guess. I’ll also suggest that Saskatchewan’s theft rates are much closer to Alberta’s and this doesn’t seem to have had a huge effect on their rates, being only a little bit higher than Manitoba’s. And Manitoba still also has theft rates higher than the national average, despite the immobilizer program... Higher even than BC’s rate, and like, almost triple Ontario’s where private insurance still costs ridiculous amounts.

And neither of those factors really account for the fact that I can throw the absolute highest insurance on my 2001 Jimmy in Manitoba ($100 deductible and $10,000,000 liability, $70/day loss of use coverage) and still come up with 85% of my current premium for minimum legal coverage only in Alberta. With the added discounts of my squeaky clean record, being a crown employee, and suggestions (none of which are entirely true but my broker said that didn’t matter ¯\_()_/¯ when I came in before my California trip to correct them) that no one else ever drives it, I don’t commute with it and drive less than 10,000km/year, and I keep it in a locked garage. There’s no way the risk is that much higher in Alberta. I’ll also point out again I have zero coverage for theft so that risk should be irrelevant to my personal rate comparison. Adding a bit of coverage to my own vehicle would have increased my premium by about 50%, which was an increase greater than actual purchase price of the vehicle, while still leaving me at a deductible level greater than purchase price.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 01/24/2018 at 21:49

0

In all honesty, injuries don’t tell a conclusive story either. Minor or major? What are medical costs in both provinces? Is one province known to be more litigious (*cough*Ontario*cough*)? How is driver history weighted? Could full driver history be claimed?

What I saw in BC was high insurance premiums due to a government monopoly and mismanagement of funds. I’m paying almost exactly the same for a 2004 Infiniti G35 in Ontario as I was for a 1996 Crown Victoria in BC. Something’s wrong when that’s the case.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 01/25/2018 at 20:27

0

Costs of injuries are borne through the provincial healthcare system, so are largely irrelevant, however the rate of injuries will generally be proportional to the rate of collisions. The premium only covers the car, not so much the people involved. This was something I was told by my broker, who said that higher third-party liability coverage was really only necessary if you spent time (with your car) outside the country where your victims weren’t likely to have other coverage, but was mostly unnecessary in Canada, unless you really fuck up (and knock over a building or something) in which case you were doing something so wrong you probably wouldn’t be covered anyway and would be facing legal charges.

I paid to have my claims history and driving record forwarded to my insurance company here so I hope that gets counted.

The big difference between BC and MB/SK is that BC decided that despite being a crown corp, they’re still for-profit. I imagine the profit margin was set to be similar to private rates... but I’m just guessing there. I really have no idea what they do with ICBC’s profits either. There also isn’t a requirement in BC to use ICBC’s insurance, and some private insurers do exist... And I doubt they’d be happy that the government would be undercutting them so I’d guess they’d be lobbying pretty hard for ICBC to provide competitive rates with their offerings. So basically BC is doing public insurance wrong... definitely not going to disagree with you on that. If my guess is correct, averaging an entire province worth of insurance rates to those that a few very small companies can offer will be what’s wrong there.

A V8 RWD car will bring higher premiums than most other vehicles, at least in my experience. BC also seems particularly harsh to new drivers and car owners, which Manitoba isn’t so much.